Sears: [00:00:00] This is Radio Stockdale. I'm Michael Sears at the Stockdale Center for Ethical Leadership at the United States Naval Academy. We're talking honor with Commander Andrew Ledford. Commander Ledford is the Chair of Leadership, Ethics and Law. Welcome Commander Ledford.

Ledford: [00:00:28] Thank you I appreciate it, Mr. Sears. This is a great opportunity to discuss the topic that we're heavily invested in in this department.

Sears: [00:00:35] We have an Honor Concept here at the Naval Academy, but you actually teach a course on code, not an honor code necessarily, but the code of what it means to be a professional, to be a warrior.

Ledford: [00:00:51] In the Code of the Warrior course, we look at seven different warrior cultures from history, and we examine what their code that they lived by was, what happens when they broke that code. And so, if we're going to talk about Honor, I think of it in the sense of the samurai and with the samurai honor was something that you had. It was, can be lost, it can be gained. There is a way to get it back. But it was this almost finite quality of something that you had that was really, really important. So important that losing honor or your samurai clan using losing their honor meant death. If you lost in battle, you lost your honor along with that battle and there is only one option at that point, which was death. Death by your own hands. And it was a way to probably that's the most extreme version of Honor that I talk about in this course in the way it was viewed with the samurai. And that's probably, influences, it definitely influences, maybe not to that extreme level, but it definitely influences the way I see honor is that is this quality of what is important, the values that you hold and how well you closely align to those values, and that gives you a sense of where you're at.

Sears: [00:02:37] You mentioned something interesting earlier, you mentioned the profession and what I mean by that is, you know, we're naval officers. We are in a profession at arms. Tell me when that starts. When are we naval officers that actually have to close ourselves with those concepts of honor, integrity and ethics?

Ledford: [00:02:57] And this is something that I talk about as well throughout that course, and it's something that I think that many midshipmen at the Naval Academy lose sight of while they're here. The belief that they are just students, in actuality, they are a part of this profession, from I-day, they are part of this, you know, profession of arms from that very first day through graduation to their commissioning. I'm not sure if they all believe that or they feel that when they're here, I can definitely see examples and where they are not holding themselves accountable or holding others accountable. And for me, that's a sign that they don't understand that concept just yet. But it is the truth. I mean, this goes back to the days old age days of sail, of midshipmen being on board a ship, and they are in essence, part of the officer corps of that ship. They're saluted as such when they walk through. And in fact, this is something that was featured on the movie Master and Commander with Russell Crowe, in which a sailor did not salute a midshipman on board and was punished was actually flogged because he did not salute that midshipman. But this goes back hundreds of years in which you are a part of this profession as midshipmen. And I don't think many of them understand that and feel that.

Sears: [00:04:26] So on I-day you put on a pair of White Works. As AC year starts, you put on your Winter Working Blues. And as the summer comes up, you put on Khakis. And I've always been really impressed with the concept of a khaki uniform. Can you, can you jump into that for a second?

Ledford: [00:04:42] Yeah. And this is this kind of highlights the sometimes the fact that midshipmen don't understand this concept, but just by virtue of wearing that color khaki. Is really, really significant in the fleet on the enlisted side, the years and years it takes of work and hard tours and high performance. To get to the point where you can finally wear that color is massive. And as an officer, that means you are in charge, you walk around in khakis when in the summertime when midshipmen put on khakis and whether they're a third class, second class, firsties about to graduate, when they wear those khakis, that means something. That should be the hint that they are part of this officer corps, this profession, and they are going to be decision makers, they are leaders, they are junior leaders, but they're still leaders. And so wearing the khaki in the summertime is a massive deal, and I think that gets lost quite a bit here.

Sears: [00:05:52] So we’re a developmental institution whereby, yeah, midshipmen or students, young people come here with a sense of honor. That's a personal sense of honor. They might have gotten it from the community, but they come here and they, as they raise their hand on I-day and enter this profession. They're also accepting the Honor Concept that we espouse because it means something. It means you're part of that profession and it means that there's an expectation in the fleet. And I want to talk about that for a second, the expectation in the fleet by sailors and marines that you embrace this concept of honor, right?

Ledford: [00:06:34] That's correct. And you know, the timeline here over four years, you have this anticipation, alright, I am a second class. I'm getting ready, now I'm a first class. I know when graduation day is coming. So, it's kind of a set timeline of when you have to be ready. And then after graduation, all of a sudden it really matters. We have instances in our Naval Academy history where that has been different, where that has been altered in some way. And in fact, the anniversary December 7th and the attack on Pearl Harbor. On December 7th in 1941, there was a group of mids having a lunch at Chick & Ruth’s downtown (Annapolis) and the radio is on and they're listening to an attack happening in Hawaii. Immediately, they understand that the nation is at war, that they are soon going to be overseas and they run out of Chick & Ruth’s. They've run down Main Street, run back to the Naval Academy and report to their companies. And the seniors within that group quickly found themselves within a matter of a month, graduates of the Naval Academy and the juniors of that class found out within several months after that day that they were going to be graduates of the Naval Academy as well. Everyone got moved up, graduated and they quickly found themselves in the fleet at war in the Pacific Ocean. And it reinforces the fact that you are part of this profession and this concept has to start here. There is not this, you know, oh, I can wait until graduation, and then get serious about it. It has to be developed here. You have to live your life by that concept here. You just don't know when the bell is going to ring and it's going to be your time up. It's just a lesson from history.

Sears: [00:08:40] Commander, great story. Let me ask you this last question. What is the Honor Concept in the fleet?

Ledford: [00:08:49] The Honor Concept in the fleet is implied by the virtue of wearing that khaki color. When you wear that uniform, implied by wearing that specific uniform, is that you uphold the standards of this Honor Concept twenty-four seven, regardless of whether you're in uniform or out of uniform, that it is always there. There is an honor board or on a committee that's watching you. There are company officers, there's there aren't folks other than the rest of the Navy that is, you know, examining every move that you make on a day-to-day basis. But really, it's, you know, you live your life along this Honor Concept and it's implied in the job.

Sears: [00:09:38] Commander Ledford, Chair of Leadership, Ethics and Law. Thanks for joining us on Radio Stockdale.

Ledford: [00:09:45] Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Sears: [00:09:54] You've been listening to Radio Stockdale, a series of podcasts produced by the Stockdale Center for Ethical Leadership at the United States Naval Academy. You can hear more podcasts at stockdalecenter.com\podcasts.